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Florida may issue Jesus license plates

Capt. Zeroth

Loftwing
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/breaking-news/story/1020954.html
TALLAHASSEE -- If you want Jesus on your license plate, the Florida Senate is looking out for you.
Religious specialty plates offered by Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Valrico, and Sen. Gary Siplin, D-Orlando, made it onto a bill Friday even though many members had not seen images of those plates and none were produced for the debate.
Siplin didn't mince words when asked what his ''Trinity'' plate looks like, saying: ``It has a picture of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.''
It, along with a ''Preserving the Past'' plate offered by Siplin, would benefit the Toomey Foundation for the Natural Sciences.
Storms' ''I Believe'' plate would benefit Faith in Teaching, an Orlando company that funds faith-based programs at schools. The design features a cross over a stained-glass window.
Several members had concerns about approving plates they had not seen. And one questioned using religious symbols at all.
''The issue is whether the state of Florida ought to be producing license plates with religious images on them,'' said Sen. Ted Deutch, D-Boca Raton, ``and I don't believe that we should.''
Before the day was over, the Anti-Defamation League and the ACLU registered opposition, and across the hall in the House, proposals for the same plates were withdrawn from legislation.
Florida has more than 100 specialty plates with several new ones proposed this year.
Coming Monday: a push to eliminate all specialty plates within two years in favor of specialty stickers sold for use on standard Florida license plates. It's the idea of Sen. Victor Crist, R-Tampa, who said it will save the state money, generate more revenue for charities and most importantly, help ``law enforcement clearly and swiftly identify a Florida license plate.''
''What this does is it lets automobile owners have choice 1 and 2, both options, and to generate more money for the charities involved,'' Crist said. ``It's a win-win situation.''
Crist doesn't have a prototype of his idea but said there would be two spots on each plate for maybe 2-inch-square stickers, in the bottom right and left corners.
So, if you are a University of Florida graduate who loves manatees, you can support both on your tag.
But those options would come too late for Friday's debate in the Senate, where Sen. Larcenia Bullard, D-Miami, invoked the devil to make her point: ``What if someone comes next year and decides to vote on something that has the devil on it, and horns, horns on each side. I know that people are called the devil, but if the symbol of a devil is on it, I would not vote for that.''
After a not-so-simple vote (two voice votes, a voided roll call vote, two quorum calls and finally one that counted), the amendment with Siplin's tag was adopted 22-13. Storms' tag passed on a voice vote.
For his part, Siplin said FAMU has a snake on its plate and the University of Miami has an ibis, ``so I think we should have an opportunity for every citizen around the state to be able to purchase a license plate of their choice.''
Siplin wasn't bothered by the opposition, saying, "If you don't like that particular license plate, you're not forced to buy it."
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533-Religious-License-Plate.jpg


Is this constitutional? Separation of church and state ring a bell?

I don't see how this can be legal, but Gov. Charlie Crist said, 'If they don’t want one they don’t have to buy one,' so I guess he thinks it getting passed.

What about Jews' tax money going to pay for this?

Personally, I would like to see my Dark Lord Lucifer on a plate; and if they pass Jesus, they have to pass Lucifer. Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
 
Well, why not? They're not forcing you to get one. If you really want one with the Flying Spaghetti Monster on it, I'm sure that could be arranged, too. Just as you can get flowers, lighthouses, animals, and more stuff on license plates, heck, why not Jesus? I see nothing wrong with this.
 
Well, why not? They're not forcing you to get one. If you really want one with the Flying Spaghetti Monster on it, I'm sure that could be arranged, too. Just as you can get flowers, lighthouses, animals, and more stuff on license plates, heck, why not Jesus? I see nothing wrong with this.
But in order for these plates to be available, the state must produce them. You can't just request it and get it made. What I'm saying is, would Florida sell license plates with figures like Cthulhu or Satan?
 
Lemon v. Kurtzman established something know as the "Three Pronged Test of Establishment" to determine whether or not a government action actually violates the establishment clause.

1) Action must serve a secular purpose:
The purpose is to print license plates, used for legal identification of a vehicle, with religious depictions only for those that desire them (among a number of other license plate depiction available as per your article).

2) It's primary purpose can not be to either inhibit or advance religion:
This can be argued, but because so many different types of custom plates are already available in Florida, the state would have a solid argument against any form of badgering.

3) There must be no excessive entanglement between government and religion:
Unlike cases such as the "Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse" the custom license plate system does not entirely devote its custom plate making to Christianity. I'm fairly certain that if a number of individuals say wanted a Flying Spaghetti Monster or Satin plate Florida would produce it. As a matter of fact, there is a page of instructions on how to get a plate design approved for production by the state of Florida.


I sympathize with your argument and the ideology of, as you mentioned, a portion of Jewish person's tax money going to pay for this (which would probably be about a 16th of a cent from any individuals full taxes). However, this is the same argument that many used against stem cell research funding by the Feds, the same argument my county uses against paying for abet district schools; in any tax system some of your taxes will end up going to things you dislike, it's a fact of life. The fact here, some group followed the instructions on the page I pointed out and, as per the legal requirements, provided enough evidence + paying of legal fees to get the designs on a piece of legislation. Even though this is not mentioned specifically in the article, it is implied by Florida State Law that this process was performed (that and remember that news sources tend to have a great deal of bias, why we look at facts and not rhetoric ;) )
 
Stem cell research is not religious. Jesus, on the other hand, is. There is NO question that state license plates with Jesus on them is a violation of the separation of church and state. Here it is dumbed down:

License Plate = State
Jesus Christ = Church
License Plate + Jesus Christ = State + Church =/= Constitution
 
Please read the above information in my post prior to posting rather than proving you are acting purely on emotional rather than political regards. This passes the 3 Prong Test of Establishment. If you can demonstrate how this does not pass the established test from Lemon v. Kurtzman using logic and historical fact then hey, you have an argument. I'm looking at this from a purely objective standpoint.

The stem cell research example was used as a means to show how taxes can go to what someone does not believe in (I used that as fundamentalists on the whole do not find stem cell research ethical, thought it went along with the theme of this post :) )
 
Ok, let me spell it out for you:
2) It's primary purpose can not be to either inhibit or advance religion:
This can be argued, but because so many different types of custom plates are already available in Florida, the state would have a solid argument against any form of badgering.
Jesus license plates. Hmm...I wonder...I wonder what could possibly result from government money going to put pictures of Jesus on things...now what was Jesus affiliated with?...Oh! That's right! Religion! Advancing religion! Huh, well shoot, I don't think that passes that test, now does it?
 
It isn't advancing the religion though, only telling the world that the driver loves Jesus. Chances are, less people will be offended by Jesus than Satan.
 
If drivers put their own Jesus pictures on license plates it would be fine, but now people are paying for their government to be involved with Jesus. This is a problem.
 
If drivers put their own Jesus pictures on license plates it would be fine, but now people are paying for their government to be involved with Jesus. This is a problem.


That's their problem. It passes that mystical test, so therefore, is legal.
 
The government may not show preference for any one religion. These plates are obviously showing Christian/Catholic preference in the state. Here are some news stories and quotes I took out of them because I know you guys won't actually go to the website and read it:

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/04/27-2

"These plates clearly violate the Constitution and basic fairness," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director. "It's wrong for the legislature to favor one faith over others. If this bill passes, it is almost certain to provoke a lawsuit.


"I am frankly shocked that any legislator would think these plates are constitutionally acceptable," Lynn continued. "It is deeply offensive when officials play political games with the sacred symbols of any faith."


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9083RK80


MIAMI (AP) - Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty license plates celebrating everything from manatees to the Miami Heat, but one now under consideration would be the first in the nation to explicitly promote a specific religion.

The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.



Florida's specialty license plates require the payment of additional fees, some of which go to causes the plates endorse.
 
What if they also allowed plates for Cthuhlu or Satan or Mohammad? Would it then be allowed? How about a giant Earth with people holding hands around it, all different ethinicities?
 
That last one would of course be allowed and probably supported by the greatest amount of people, the others are religious figures and therefore cannot be on state property else that state could be accused of favoring a religion over another.
 
If they allow one, they must allow all. However, with thousands of different religions, there is no practical way to produce license plates like these for everyone. It can't be done.
 
How about people request it?

I really don't think this is a big issue. As a matter of fact, I think it's stupid that money is being put into new license plate designs especially in this terrible economy.

They should arrest more people so that we have more prisoners to make our specially requested license plates.
 
Please read my previous post.

There is no practical way to produce hundreds of different religion specialty license plates.
 
I found something new:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16. Supreme Court justice Hugo Black, February 10, 1947.

No religions can be aided by tax or law, even if none is being favored over another.
 
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