Did you happen to read the comments underneath the articles? It looks like someone already made my argument for me and you just handed it here.
"Marc Brown wrote: David, I’m getting worried about you. Do you actually have any experience of the Canadian, French and UK healthcare systems you belittle, with mostly single anecdotes and out of date data? And do you really believe all the right wing rhetoric pouring from the far right such as Mark Steyn, whose book America alone is the most absurd, thinly veiled racist tome, having us believe Europe will be overrun by militant Islamists in a generation?
On the matter to hand, just pick up ‘liberal’ papers such as Businessweek.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260.htm
In this piece you’ll find:
‘One of the most repeated truisms about the U.S. health-care system is that, for all its other problems, American patients at least don’t have to endure the long waits for medical care that are considered endemic under single-payer systems such as those in Canada and Britain. But as several surveys and numerous anecdotes show, waiting times in the U.S. are often as bad or worse as those in other industrialized nations…”
In other words: you need to get out more."
"Morris Berg wrote:
from:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76295.php
Waiting Times For Care? Try Looking At The U.S. - Nurses, Doctors Say It’s Time To Debunk The Myths
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“There’s been a lot of clamor lately about delays in care in some other countries. But if you want to see some really unsightly waiting times, look at U.S. medical facilities,” said Deborah Burger, RN, president of the 75,000-member CNA/NNOC.
While the problem has been largely overlooked by the major media, it was quietly exposed by the chief medical officer of Aetna, Inc. late in Aetna’s Investor Conference 2007 in March.
In his talk, Troy Brennan conceded that “the (U.S.) healthcare system is not timely.” He cited “recent statistics from the Institution of Healthcare Improvement… that people are waiting an average of about 70 days to try to see a provider. And in many circumstances people initially diagnosed with cancer are waiting over a month, which is intolerable,” Brennan said.
Brennan also recalled that he had formerly spent much of his time as an administrator and head of a physicians’ organization trying “to find appointments for people with doctors.”
While Brennan’s comments went unreported by the media, his data matches several studies and a report in a June 22 Business Week article which opened by citing the case of a New York woman who had to fight for a timely second exam following suspicious results from a first mammogram and then still had to wait a full month.
The article also noted a University of California San Francisco research report last year that documented average waits of 38.2 days to get an appointment with a dermatologist to examine a possibly cancerous mole.
A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada. And, most of the Canadian data so widely reported by the U.S. media is out of date, and misleading, according to PNHP and CNA/NNOC.
In Canada, there are no waits for emergency surgeries, and the median time for non-emergency elective surgery has been dropping as a result of public pressure and increased funding so that it is now equal to or better than the U.S. in most areas, the organizations say. Statistics Canada’s latest figures show that median wait times for elective surgery in Canada is now three weeks.
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In support of your argument, you cite two anecdotal articles written by people who are “employed” at think tanks funded by (among others) Exxon Mobil, Chase Manhattan, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Lilly Endowment, Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Sarah Scaife Foundation, Roe Foundation, Smith Richardson Foundation (Gatzberg - MI) and ChevronTexaco, Exxon Mobil Corporation, Pfizer, PhRMA, and the Lilly Endowment (Pipes - PRI).
Not persuasive."
"Marc Brown wrote:
How about the point that there is no primary source for year by year wait times in the US, unlike other countries?"
"Jeff Gannon wrote:
I find it sickening that Americans have the gall to point fingers at the Canadian healthcare system. Not only is it superior in almost everyway - it works. Sure, of course it is not infallable - what system is? Of course people die waiting for treatment - but that isn’t because the system failed them - other factors are present. Everyone can’t use the same equipment at the same time - that is only logical - regardless of where you live - there are always going to be more patients than doctors/hospitals/available equipment. This is not a Canadian healthcare issue - it would be the same in ANY country regardless of the system in place. So to say that Canadians are dying waiting for treatment is a stretch of the truth without including the necessary facts to understand why. The system is not to blame - it works fine - not perfect, but again - which system is? The fact is - there are alot of sick and injured people out there and the Canadian system itself does not turn anyone away. Like waiting in line at McDonalds for your Big Mac - you will get served - but to think that you HAVE to be first in line - and get treatment immediately over the other people that are ahead of you is a ludicrous argument - wait your turn - you WILL get served. Unfortunately, if you die while waiting - your death will only add to the growing number of American HMO’s argument of - “See! The Canadian healthcare system failed another one”
The fact is these large conglomerate drug companies and HMO don’t want to see a Canadian system adopted - because they know that it is a cashcow for them. Their system of greed and unethical performance would come under scrutiny and indeed be in question under the Canadian model.
One must keep in mind that in America Insurance companies are fighting over themselves to get your business. They all offer the best service “since sliced bread”, and promise to be there for you when you need them. As we know, that isn’t always the case. Often people are denied on technicalities ranging from denial of treatment due to any number of reasons ranging from experimental, to cosmetic. Often patients are denied the proper insurance to cover many of their ailments because the HMO’s don’t want to make a payout unless they absolutely have no other choice. This is a daily fact of life for many people with health insurance living in America.
Now one must ask, why would the HMO’s and drug companies stop at nothing - including unfair propaganda touting the ills of the Canadian healthcare model? Well, the answer is really quite simple. Under the Canadian healthcare system - private healthcare from Insurance companies is illegal. It is illegal for a Canadian citizen to seek out an Insurance company and pay for their service.
Under the Canadian model - all of these private and/or state run insurance companies would go out of business. Considering that their way of life is at stake - it is no wonder that these companies would do and say anything to make the Canadian Healthcare system look flawed and imperfect. They are fighting for survival.
Understanding this is key to understanding how their mindset works.
Now you know why they insist that the Canadian system is flawed."
*continued in next post*
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